[Resolved] Fn Switch not properly controlling tap and hold combo functions

zatch_attach

zatch_attach

Well-Known Member
Hey all!

So I just got a Keeley Halo for my board, and I'm excited to integrate its external controls with my PBC. The Halo has an input for A/B (that simulates the A/B footswitches directly) and a TRS/Exp input that can either work as an expression input or a tap input.

I've configured Fn Switch 1 to function as tap tempo for the Halo; per the Halo manual, if you connect a TS cable to the TRS/Exp jack, that cable will control tap and the infinite hold feature. My issue is, I can't seem to get both the tap function and the hold function to work properly together with my PBC.

I have FN1 set to Momentary, and I have a Macro turning it off/on for Auto Tap. I'm sending 4 taps. When I change tempos via preset/song changes, I hear the relay activate, and the Halo is set to the tempo I would expect. I have Auto Tap Div set to "8th" because the Halo doesn't have 8th note, only quarter and dotted 8th. So far so good! Auto Tap works perfectly.

However, I've added a button (on Page 13, "Hotkeys") to allow me control the Halo's tap tempo manually. It's a simple IA button, set to Momentary, set to turn FnSwitch#1 Off/On just like my Auto Tap Macro. But it doesn't work quite the same way. For one thing, tapping in time doesn't really work because the PBC seems to be sending pulses on press and on release. So you basically need to time both the press/release in tempo to get it to time pulses properly.

But, perhaps even more importantly for me, I can't get the hold function to work. Holding down my "Halo Tap" button simply doesn't activate the infinite hold. I know this feature is working on the Halo because if I connect an external non-PBC momentary footswitch, it works as expected. And, if I Invert the polarity of FN1 on the PBC, the Halo stays in "Hold" mode (because the "footswitch" is now normally closed and therefore constantly "held down" as far as the Halo is concerned).

I busted out my Multimeter and what I found is that if I hold down my Halo Tap button, the relay closes momentarily, then reopens, even while the switch is held. This is presumably because of the "Momentary" setting on FN1, and also explains my strange press/release pulse issue. BUT if I switch FN1 to be latching, Hold works great, and my manual tap tempo button behaves as I would expect, sending a pulse only on press, but Auto Tap doesn't work the same way, it sends half the taps and my delay time is twice as long as a result.

So there doesn't appear to be a way to get BOTH the latching on/off functionality I need to control my Halo manually, AND the ability to control it using Auto Tap.

Is it possible that Auto Tap needs to be reworked to work properly with non-momentary FN settings, for dual-function TRS jacks like the Halo has?
 

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Did you try keeping FN1 as momentary and setting your tap button to have momentary turned off?
 
rjmmusic said:
Did you try keeping FN1 as momentary and setting your tap button to have momentary turned off?
Click to expand...

Just tried this; similar results. Pressing the footswitch still only sends a pulse in that case, even if held down. Check it with my multimeter as well.
 
As I mentioned above, the Halo also allows you to control the A/B footswitches directly using a TRS cable. I just tried it out to see if the results would be helpful. The combination of settings to make this work properly is: Mom turned OFF on the FN setting, and Momentary turned ON on the button setting.

The issue with this configuration for the Tap/Hold feature is, as above, that if a FN Switch is not set to momentary, the Auto Tap Macro will toggle it on/off in time with the tempo instead of sending pulses in time with the tempo, resulting in a half-time subdivision.
 
What if you set the function switch to latching, then in your macro, you put:

Audio FnSwitch #1 ON : on
System / Wait 50mS
Audio FnSwitch #1 ON : off
System / Wait 50mS

Basically emulating a momentary switch.
 
Weirdly enough, the above suggested settings caused the Macro to never run, I never saw or heard the relay activate.

I also tried this:

Audio / FnSwitch#1 off:OFF, on: ON
System / Wait off:50, on: 50

With these settings, the Macro ran, but I got a half-time subdivision (quarter notes instead of 8th notes) like before, and they were off a bit from the BPM, presumably something to do with the Wait throwing off timing.
 
I don't have any other solutions for you at this time, then. We don't have any way for a function switch to be both momentary and latching depending how you're using it, which is what it seems like is needed in this case.
 
rjmmusic said:
I don't have any other solutions for you at this time, then. We don't have any way for a function switch to be both momentary and latching depending how you're using it, which is what it seems like is needed in this case.
Click to expand...

Understood, it does seem quite complex. Hypothetically, could there be another setting under Auto Tap, something like "Always Send Momentary Pulses", that would force the Auto Tap Macro to treat the FN Switch as Momentary, even if the switch itself is set to be latching?
 
zatch_attach said:
Understood, it does seem quite complex. Hypothetically, could there be another setting under Auto Tap, something like "Always Send Momentary Pulses", that would force the Auto Tap Macro to treat the FN Switch as Momentary, even if the switch itself is set to be latching?
Click to expand...
Possibly. I'd have to look at the code and see how it works, it's been years since I've looked at that part.
 
Alright, I’ve been brainstorming my problem and I think I’ve arrived at a solution, albeit a simple/inelegant one.

I realized that while I was connecting to FN1 with a TRS -> TS cable, with a dangling Ring connection to FN2, I could possibly make use of FN2… This literally came to me in a dream.

So this morning I did some soldering and bridged the Ring connection on my TRS cable that’s plugged into the Func Swt 1/2 to the Tip. So now FN1 and FN2 are connected to the same TS cable.

I kept FN1 as my Auto Tap, set to Momentary, set FN2 to latching, and added tap tempo/hold buttons to control FN2.

In practice, this works exactly as I was hoping it would. Auto Tap successfully sets the tempo for my Halo, and the manual control buttons work as well.

I’m curious, are there any potential problems with this setup? I can’t think of any, relays don’t really care what they’re controlling/connected to until voltage is involved, and that doesn’t seem to be the case here.
 
Thanks! I’m renaming this thread to mark it as resolved, hopefully someone who runs into a similar problem in the future can use my solution.
 
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